The Clone Wars: Season 2: Episode 9 Discussion Thread

[Robimus]

http://www.starwars.com/img/theclonewars/guide/epguide209.jpg


Grievous Intrigue

Not sure when this is airing yet, but word it will contain the first appearance of two Jedi in this series.

Preview Here! (http://www.starwars.com/video/view/000931.html)

[Prowl_2009]

Very cool! :cool: Lov'n the screenshot!!! Sure is nice to see Grievous back after an over 10 episode absence. :D

[StarwarsTF]

should be aired Jan 1st!! I dont know if that's for Canada? :(

[Robimus]

My digital description shows Brain Invaders so I'm guessing this will air next week.

I don't know if thats gonna put us behind again or not as I haven't seen American dates yet.

[SPLIT LIP]

Teletoon's airing two eps on Friday.


I hope to God if we're delayed, that the US doesn't air it until next week. I HATE being behind and using torrents.

EDIT: The Star Wars site says that there's TWO new episodes to air on January first. Now I'm certain that we'll get new episodes friday.

[jacobot]

^That is great news!!! :)

[JSon]

Sounds like Adi Gallia is supposed to be in this one. I'm looking forward. And the 2nd episode is supposed to be Rex looking for Grievous. Lots of Grievous :cool: awesome.

[Robimus]

My digital box shows Legacy of Terror and Brain Invaders on the descriptions.

I hope its wrong, but don't get your hopes to high based on Star Wars.com. They really are not advertising toward us.

Adi and Eeth Koth are in this episode, when it airs;)

[SPLIT LIP]

No, but I find it odd that there's supposed to be two new eps on Friday, and Teletoon just happens to dedicate two slots, on Friday, to Clone Wars?


My DVR shows no descriptions, and they can be wrong or just placeholders.


If they aren't new, I'll be hitting up every torrent site I know for the new eps.

[Prowl_2009]

Two new episodes would be awesome! :cool: Hopefully we won't be behind and have reruns aired on Teletoon. :rolleyes:

[SPLIT LIP]

Teletoon sucks ass. They're both repeats, and since I know they won't air the two new ones on the same day, we're TWO weeks behind now. Guess it's back to using torrents to keep up to speed.

Goddammit. Why would they do this?

[Icetron]

^ Lameeeeee :mad:

I'm sort of glad I stopped watching TV.

[Robimus]

Thats very dissapointing :mad: Maybe we should all email Teletoon.

[SPLIT LIP]

Email them MY ASS. And I'll mark it as urgent.

[Robimus]

I sent Teletoon a message through the "contact us" section of their site requesting a response about this situation.

Lets see what they say/if they respond.

[Prowl_2009]

This should be interesting. I am with SPLIT LIP when I say Teletoon blows! :mad:

[lars573]

Um you guys do realize that Cartoon Network gets primary boradcast rights in NA. Meaning they always get to show it first. But they also have gaps that Teletoon might not.

[Prowl_2009]

Well, just watched episodes 9 and 10 and as usual, they were awesome! Love Kenobi and Grievous' banter during combat and Rex learning a lesson in how to spend ones life from Cut gave the show a slightly deeper feel. :D All in all, two-thumbs up once again!!! :D

[SPLIT LIP]

Um you guys do realize that Cartoon Network gets primary boradcast rights in NA. Meaning they always get to show it first.Funny, because I'm pretty sure that before we were not only getting Clone Wars on the same daty as the US, but a half-hour earlier to boot. This trend lasted for weeks until the show paused for the holidays.

I saw the episodes regardless thanks to torrents. Both were fantastic.

Grievous Intrigue was awesome. Showing not only Grievous' brutal and skilled side, but also his cowardly side, but even running away Grievous is awesome.

The Deserter was great, aswell. It's nice to have a rougue clone who's a really nice guy, and has no hatred for Clones or Jedi.

[Robimus]

Grievous Intrigue was an excellent episode. Great action, a couple new Jedi. Good stuff.

I would have liked Grievous to get a Jedi Master kill under his belt, maybe next time.

There is some cotradictions surrounding Eeth Koth having been thought killed earlier on Geonosis.....but all in all I think its great that they brought him back(in Karen Miller's Wild Space tie in novel some half a year back no less). He's way cooler looking than Agen Kolar anyway.:)

I'll make a thread for Deserter as well if anyone wants to shoot some comments into it.:)

[SPLIT LIP]

The creators said they didn't want to just kill him because they liked him too much. To them: stop getting so attached to these people, they all end up worm food in Episode three anyway. ;) Let Grievous knock off some Jedi, please!

Finally we see some standard-colour 212th troops under Cody's command. We've seen Waxer and Boil, as well as many other plain white or Geonosis-gear troopers, but never the distinct yellow-orange striped ones. I dunno, it just struck me as a pro for this ep.

Grievous had some mad fighting moves, too. And I do mean mad. I loved the little touches, like how in his fight with Obi-wan as he got more enclosed and frustrated he was hitting walls and slicing consoles. Even when he was running he did that freaky-awesome spider-run thing I love so much.

I'm still kinda miff'd about the whole "Anakin and Grievous never met until ROTS" but that's bullcrap. I wanna see them throw down. They never fought in ROTS, so we have these two great characters, (who are substancial improvements over their prequel movie counterparts, I might add) who can never directly interact because of some worthless throwaway line. :mad: Ugh, just bugs me.

[StarwarsTF]

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script. :p

[lars573]

Finally we see some standard-colour 212th troops under Cody's command. We've seen Waxer and Boil, as well as many other plain white or Geonosis-gear troopers, but never the distinct yellow-orange striped ones. I dunno, it just struck me as a pro for this ep.
I also noted Rex had some plain blue striped 501st troopers with him too.

And then there was Koth's slime splat with a worm in it troopers. :D

[SPLIT LIP]

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script. :pActually, I like it. The only problem is, it makes Episode three look bad by giving these two charatcers an interesting relationship, and in Episode three it's like "meh, whatev, we fight now." I know it most likely won't, but I'd love to see this show cover, even if only in a summary, the events of Episode three. It'd be a lot more interesting with this Anakin and not that emo dork from the movies.

I also noted Rex had some plain blue striped 501st troopers with him too.

And then there was Koth's slime splat with a worm in it troopers. :DI didn't notice the 501st guys. And yeah, Koth's troops were awesome.

[Prowl_2009]

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script. :p

Really? I seriously love the Kenobi / Grievous banter during combat! :D

[Robimus]

I'm still not high on how they are using Grievous in the series. Like Split Lip mentions, its kinda making the Ep 3 confrontation less meaningful between him and Kenobi.

On top of that so many Jedi he attacks completely own him. Now we've seen Kit Fisto and Eeth Koth both belittle him, which is very much a new take on his character who in the prior EU was presented as a nearly unbeatable Jedi killer.

Grievous in the past has been a bigger threat than Ventress, now I think the show has made it clear that Ventress is a bigger threat just because of how she has dueled Luminara.

Descriptions for the Mandalorian Episodes are starting to pop up as well. They appear to be even a bigger nightmare for EU continuity than first imagined, but I still can't wait.:)

[SPLIT LIP]

I'm still not high on how they are using Grievous in the series. Like Split Lip mentions, its kinda making the Ep 3 confrontation less meaningful between him and Kenobi.I don't care about Episode three anymore. Clone Wars as a series has served the preguel movies in every way.


Now we've seen Kit Fisto and Eeth Koth both belittle him, which is very much a new take on his character who in the prior EU was presented as a nearly unbeatable Jedi killer.They didn't belittle him. I don't know if you watched the episode, but Eeth Koth lost, and was tortured and shackled by Grievous. And the whole time they did fight he was basically toying with him. And again, Kit Fisto never belittled him. he barely escaped Grievous, and still lost his former Padawan and clone squad.

And even though he has lost in the end, the show's still portrayed him as more than a threat. the only times he's lost are when his opponents vastly outnumber him or they merely escape from him.

I never liked the EU Grievous. He was too... fanfic-y. Like someone wrote "this guy is super-cool and doesn't lose and kills all the good guys the end". I remember in the first Clone Wars cartoon when he took on all those Jedi in his first appearence. They fought like whimps all to make Grievous look good. I like a competant Grievous, but also a realistic Grievous. Yeah he's tough, but he's not God-like. Sure he's cunning, but he also runs if he knows he won't win. Sure he can take a lot, but he can still be injured and die. It makes him a stronger charatcer as an antagonist to make him formidible, but credible. As long as he's not as, dare I say bumbling as he is in Episode three.


Descriptions for the Mandalorian Episodes are starting to pop up as well. They appear to be even a bigger nightmare for EU continuity than first imagined, but I still can't wait.:)I've never cared for the EU before the first Clone Wars cartoon, so I don't care if they rewrite anything with this one. I just want may favourite TV show on air to stay good.


Also, has anyone noticed how the animation has improved? Every moment Grievous was on screen he looked fantastic compared to how he moved in Season 1. Like that shot when Grievous is running through the ship talking on the comm, and it's a close-up on his face and it's much more dramatic than just the standard angles from season one. Both eps are full of these. The scenes were more artistically set up, like the fight in the damaged airlock, and while not this ep, in the next when rex is in Cut's house while tehy have dinner.

[Robimus]

Did you not see my comments, of course I watched it:confused:

Grievous only beat Koth because of his Magna Droids making the fight uneven. Everytime Eeth got an advantage the Magna Guards hit Koth.

Fisto handled Grievous fairly easily in Lair, he took one of his sabers and forced Grievous to retreat.

Only the appearance of the Magna Guards forced Kit to retreat, so he could avoid the same fate as Eeth.

Killing clones and one Jedi just don't make Grievous the threat he needs to be. Right now he's playing the typical cowardly villian, always being thrwarted, always fleeing. We hear about his military victories but never really see one.

See, the Films and the EU exist and create expectations for many fans, not everyone has to like them but they are still there..

This series in and of itself is proving very disrespectful of the EU, to the point where I view it as pretty much a seperate continuity anyway.

By disrespectful I don't mean that its ignoring the EU, that would actually be better. Instead its strip mining the EU taking aspects like Ventress the Mandalorians and more, simply using them to tell only their story with no regard for the character origins.

George Lucas approves of this and I'm actually fine with that, because as stated I do seperate the continuities into personal canon:p.

As someone who thinks Episode 3 is the best Star Wars film thats been made I do find Split Lip's opinion disturbing (ala Vader:p).

But I've found that this series has created a lot of new fans, like Split Lip, and that is a good thing. There is no way around that. The more Star Wars fans there are, the better the franchise will be.

I get that the newer fans don't care if the older stories get overwritten, but just ask yourself how you would feel if a year or two from now The Clone Wars series was completely overwritten by a new live action version, all the while LFL's official policy was that "There is only one continuity".

That means things you liked about the current series would be gone, erased, officially no longer counting from LFL's perspective. Of course they still exist, they just don't count officially.

And it might not matter to you either, but I'm just trying to give you an idea about where I'm coming from.

In 1994 Lucas told us through the forward of Splinter of the Minds Eye that the EU was a direct continuation of his story, then the prequels came out and he cherry picked(at least we still got Coruscant :D), disregarding virtually everything else.

Then he decided that the EU wasn't his story but still forced LFL to have "one contiuity" in the same breath. Which actually worked out not too badly until recent years when he decided to get out the EU eraser and started cherry picking again.

As you can probably tell from this rant I have a high regard for the authors wo have written and maintained the EU for the past 16 years.

I even had a high regard for Dave Filoni, as it was apparent from early on that he was trying to not steam roll the existing EU with the series. He can still restore my faith too, there is time:)

By all means use Quinlan Vos, just don't erase everything about his history but his dreadlocks. If thats the intention then they shouldn't use him at all. Use some other original Jedi, one that hasn't had 50 comics and a complete history written about him.

It's George Lucas that I've lost some respect for. He'll always be god in the Star Wars Universe and I'll always love his creation. I just don't think he respects us back in some ways.

Anyway I'm concerned that you(Split Lip) view my comments as bashing the show, which I'm in no way trying to do.

I enjoy the show, I like what its adding to the Star Wars Universe. It's just tough to divorce one's self from from an emotional investment in a lifetime of EU story telling just because I'm being told that the shiny new TV series is now the official story.

This official story keeps getting changed and there is some frustration in that. I admit I'd be much more frustrated if the post ROTJ EU got mucked around with though, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't.:)

[Prowl_2009]

Also, has anyone noticed how the animation has improved? Every moment Grievous was on screen he looked fantastic compared to how he moved in Season 1. Like that shot when Grievous is running through the ship talking on the comm, and it's a close-up on his face and it's much more dramatic than just the standard angles from season one. Both eps are full of these. The scenes were more artistically set up, like the fight in the damaged airlock, and while not this ep, in the next when rex is in Cut's house while tehy have dinner.

The animation has certainly improved over both the film and first season! The characters look fantastic and yes, the shots have changed to show off how beautifully the characters have now been animated. Grievous was the one character who really stood out in my mind from these episodes as having been improved upon and a close examination of his appearance in episodes like Lair of Greivous from Season 1 will quickly show the viewer just how much the animation and overall character movement have improved since the shows early beginnings! :cool:

[lars573]

Did you not see my comments, of course I watched it:confused:

Grievous only beat Koth because of his Magna Droids making the fight uneven. Everytime Eeth got an advantage the Magna Guards hit Koth.

Fisto handled Grievous fairly easily in Lair, he took one of his sabers and forced Grievous to retreat.

Only the appearance of the Magna Guards forced Kit to retreat, so he could avoid the same fate as Eeth.

Killing clones and one Jedi just don't make Grievous the threat he needs to be. Right now he's playing the typical cowardly villian, always being thrwarted, always fleeing. We hear about his military victories but never really see one.

See, the Films and the EU exist and create expectations for many fans, not everyone has to like them but they are still there..

This series in and of itself is proving very disrespectful of the EU, to the point where I view it as pretty much a seperate continuity anyway.

By disrespectful I don't mean that its ignoring the EU, that would actually be better. Instead its strip mining the EU taking aspects like Ventress the Mandalorians and more, simply using them to tell only their story with no regard for the character origins.

George Lucas approves of this and I'm actually fine with that, because as stated I do seperate the continuities into personal canon:p.

As someone who thinks Episode 3 is the best Star Wars film thats been made I do find Split Lip's opinion disturbing (ala Vader:p).

But I've found that this series has created a lot of new fans, like Split Lip, and that is a good thing. There is no way around that. The more Star Wars fans there are, the better the franchise will be.

I get that the newer fans don't care if the older stories get overwritten, but just ask yourself how you would feel if a year or two from now The Clone Wars series was completely overwritten by a new live action version, all the while LFL's official policy was that "There is only one continuity".

That means things you liked about the current series would be gone, erased, officially no longer counting from LFL's perspective. Of course they still exist, they just don't count officially.

And it might not matter to you either, but I'm just trying to give you an idea about where I'm coming from.

In 1994 Lucas told us through the forward of Splinter of the Minds Eye that the EU was a direct continuation of his story, then the prequels came out and he cherry picked(at least we still got Coruscant :D), disregarding virtually everything else.

Then he decided that the EU wasn't his story but still forced LFL to have "one contiuity" in the same breath. Which actually worked out not too badly until recent years when he decided to get out the EU eraser and started cherry picking again.

As you can probably tell from this rant I have a high regard for the authors wo have written and maintained the EU for the past 16 years.

I even had a high regard for Dave Filoni, as it was apparent from early on that he was trying to not steam roll the existing EU with the series. He can still restore my faith too, there is time:)

By all means use Quinlan Vos, just don't erase everything about his history but his dreadlocks. If thats the intention then they shouldn't use him at all. Use some other original Jedi, one that hasn't had 50 comics and a complete history written about him.

It's George Lucas that I've lost some respect for. He'll always be god in the Star Wars Universe and I'll always love his creation. I just don't think he respects us back in some ways.

Anyway I'm concerned that you(Split Lip) view my comments as bashing the show, which I'm in no way trying to do.

I enjoy the show, I like what its adding to the Star Wars Universe. It's just tough to divorce one's self from from an emotional investment in a lifetime of EU story telling just because I'm being told that the shiny new TV series is now the official story.

This official story keeps getting changed and there is some frustration in that. I admit I'd be much more frustrated if the post ROTJ EU got mucked around with though, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't.:)
And this is why Roddenberry had the brains to make a certain declartion about his star-themed creation. "If it's not on the screen, it isn't cannon." And Lucas now seems to be following that rule.

[SPLIT LIP]

Sorry, dude, but after just waking up I can't bear wall of text, so I'll just rebuttal half your post.Did you not see my comments, of course I watched it:confused:I still don't see how they belittled him when they were both the ones who ran away limping.

Grievous only beat Koth because of his Magna Droids making the fight uneven. Everytime Eeth got an advantage the Magna Guards hit Koth.So you're saying Grievous cheated? The way I see he evened the odds. Grievous can't use the force, so he has the guards to be his force. They can be defeated, too, y'know. It's not like he's using Godhax.

Fisto handled Grievous fairly easily in Lair, he took one of his sabers and forced Grievous to retreat.He stole his Padawan's saber back and Grievous was still able to fend him off.

Only the appearance of the Magna Guards forced Kit to retreat, so he could avoid the same fate as Eeth.Exactly. Grievous made him run. You seem to forget that grievous is a General. There's far more to being a General than just beating your opponents in swordfights. He's a master planner as well, and Grievous intrigue showed us just how well he is at planning.

Killing clones and one Jedi just don't make Grievous the threat he needs to be.This is exactly what he needs to be and exactly what I was talking about. He's not some unstoppable warrior, he's just some jerk who good at his job. People make him out to be some kind of God and that's bullshit.

Right now he's playing the typical cowardly villian, always being thrwarted, always fleeing. We hear about his military victories but never really see one.Not once in this series have I ever seen him be the typical cowardly villain. He's run, but that's his thing. that's his character, but he also kicks serious ass

See, the Films and the EU exist and create expectations for many fans, not everyone has to like them but they are still there..And they can be ludicrous. Expectations, like opinions, are something that people think they can use as a shield in debate, but if they're outlandish enough they can be challenged. (not that I'm saying you're doing that, just something I've always wanted to say)

This series in and of itself is proving very disrespectful of the EU, to the point where I view it as pretty much a seperate continuity anyway.Too many people are worried about "respecting" stuff nowadayswhen it comes to making movies, or shows or even video games. Nobody's ballsy enough to try and make progress out of fear of "disrespecting" someone else's stuff and it all gets muddled and confusing for those who aren't in the loop and have read every comic. [/personal rant]

By disrespectful I don't mean that its ignoring the EU, that would actually be better. Instead its strip mining the EU taking aspects like Ventress the Mandalorians and more, simply using them to tell only their story with no regard for the character origins.I dunno about this, they've done a pretty good job keeping it ambiguios. (sp? It's early) Like Grievous' "origin" in Lair of Grievous. It's worded in such a way that he doesn't say he chose his body to be changed for no reason, rather he could eb refering to choosing to have it changed after his crash in the EU.

George Lucas approves of this and I'm actually fine with that, because as stated I do seperate the continuities into personal canon:p.And I'm fine with it for a totally different reason: I have no exposure to the EU outside of maybe three video games and the first Clone Wars cartoon. Maybe that's why I don't care as much as a real fan would.

As someone who thinks Episode 3 is the best Star Wars film thats been made I do find Split Lip's opinion disturbing (ala Vader:p).Oh, sorry. :o I didn't really think about that. Although I do agree that Episode 3 is one of the better films, I still feel the Clone Wars Cartoon has surpased it. Maybe that's why I want it to cover it's events, because they setup and plot of Episode three is still good, but the excecution is not what I, personally, want to see. Ormaybe I really want to see Vader in this show. :p


I just want to stress to you now that I'm not trying to pick on you or the Expanded Universe, but I think that being in what is probably a very large Demographic of people who's only exposure to Star Wars has been the movies and the show, that I'm perfectly reasonable in wanting to support the show's dicisions when it has given me no real reason to doubt it, even if it does conflict. :/ I understand your point of view, I just don't agree with your analysis. But like you said, there's a very good and perfectly rational answer to all this: personal canon. We can choose to seperate or ignore whatever continuities we choose. I'm doing that with Episode 1 as we speak. :D

P.S. Sorry to answer wall of text with wall of text after ignoring half your post because of it, but then my post would be twice as long. :eek:

[Robimus]

And this is why Roddenberry had the brains to make a certain declartion about his star-themed creation. "If it's not on the screen, it isn't cannon." And Lucas now seems to be following that rule.

Lucas has followed the rule for quiet a while, he just didn't start out that way;)

So where does this leave the new Star Trek movie I wonder?:)

Of course the Holiday Special, Droids and Ewoks Cartoons and Ewoks films have appeared on screen as well, but George still deosn't consider them his canon, so I think there is some holes in the Star Trek approach as described.

[Robimus]

P.S. Sorry to answer wall of text with wall of text after ignoring half your post because of it, but then my post would be twice as long. :eek:

Thats OK, I like walls of text:)

[Prowl_2009]

LOL, in any case, this was quite the enjoyable episode and it was nice to see Grievous again! Hopefully he gets a little more screen time this time around. :)