NMC Toys aka Northmen Collectibles feedback

[toyguy99]

I just joined to get some feedback on a charge back dispute from this store. And since its a toy forum that's cool too. So I made the mistake of ordering supposedly in-stock items from this store. I emailed sales every week or two for couple months asking for items to be shipped with no response at all. I then initiated a charge back dispute which took few weeks to get fully initiated. So a day or 2 after the store would have received notice of the dispute I get a reply from NMC addressing the dispute. The reply was from the last email I sent them before giving up, which would have been almost a month prior. The email basically blames this issue on me and indicates that since I didn't receive any response from the multiple emails that I should assume they have a problem getting emails and I should have kept emailing. I think that I only got response because I initiated a dispute since they were able to find an email pretty fast after receiving notice. The email was also very condescending and insulting. It is also weird that it feels like it was written by different people or maybe just cut and paste from previous emails that they've done. Idk. At the end of the email NMC is asking me to close the dispute before they submit their defense (or they won't send product).

I am not closing the dispute or responding to them as I hope at this point I can just get my money back from the credit card dispute and be done with this store forever. The credit card company told me that I don't need to respond to their email either. As of right now I have a temporary credit on my credit card. So, for anyone who's been through this entire process, what are my chances of winning?

[TheKnightFire]

If you're looking for more reliable Canadian sites I'd add Darnim Solution. They get things in pretty quickly & every time I've ordered from them the products come mint. I recently ordered the entire FF wave from them & was really happy with the price, care taken & speed of delivery.

[Hoffman]

Originally Posted by toyguy99

I just joined to get some feedback on a charge back dispute from this store. And since its a toy forum that's cool too. So I made the mistake of ordering supposedly in-stock items from this store. I emailed sales every week or two for couple months asking for items to be shipped with no response at all. I then initiated a charge back dispute which took few weeks to get fully initiated. So a day or 2 after the store would have received notice of the dispute I get a reply from NMC addressing the dispute. The reply was from the last email I sent them before giving up, which would have been almost a month prior. The email basically blames this issue on me and indicates that since I didn't receive any response from the multiple emails that I should assume they have a problem getting emails and I should have kept emailing. I think that I only got response because I initiated a dispute since they were able to find an email pretty fast after receiving notice. The email was also very condescending and insulting. It is also weird that it feels like it was written by different people or maybe just cut and paste from previous emails that they've done. Idk. At the end of the email NMC is asking me to close the dispute before they submit their defense (or they won't send product).

I am not closing the dispute or responding to them as I hope at this point I can just get my money back from the credit card dispute and be done with this store forever. The credit card company told me that I don't need to respond to their email either. As of right now I have a temporary credit on my credit card. So, for anyone who's been through this entire process, what are my chances of winning?

The only acceptable response to your dispute is for him to ship your goods or refund your money directly.

You will win your chargeback claim. It is almost impossible as a seller to defend them. I've lost charge back cases where I've provided proof of delivery.

[toyguy99]

Originally Posted by TheKnightFire

If you're looking for more reliable Canadian sites I'd add Darnim Solution. They get things in pretty quickly & every time I've ordered from them the products come mint. I recently ordered the entire FF wave from them & was really happy with the price, care taken & speed of delivery.

I'm actually waiting on my first purchase from Darnim. Was suppose to arrive Friday but delayed a little on its travels, probably due to recent weather and obvious. Darnim however, processed the order very quickly and I had CP tracking info next day. Look forward to getting it within the next couple days according to the updated tracking.

I only started collecting recently and did my 1st orders at Toy Snowman at around same time as NMC Toys. Have done a few more orders at Toy Snowman since then. Have also now ordered from Amazon Canada and Gamestop. Amazon did send me something for a guitar that had a UPC sticker for the Black Series figure I ordered stuck to it but they refunded that very quickly. No other issues with Amazon except a box beat up a bit. The last place I have tried to date was Redshift7. Must have ordered at the perfect time because I had tracking info within 10 minutes including Canada Post had the package. No lie. So I am glad that I've had these positive experiences because the NMC order made me very hesitant to try somewhere new.

Oh, I forgot I have a preorder that should be shipping soon from Hasbro for the Snake Eyes and Storm Shadow retro exclusive. Won't be doing those to often, very expensive with shipping and converting to CAD. Man I fell into this toy collecting hard and fast, lol.

Originally Posted by Hoffman

The only acceptable response to your dispute is for him to ship your goods or refund your money directly.

You will win your chargeback claim. It is almost impossible as a seller to defend them. I've lost charge back cases where I've provided proof of delivery.

Thanks for the response. Gives me hope. It is good news to me for my situation as I feel I did what was necessary when a store accepts my money and then cuts off communication and doesn't deliver any product. I do feel for the good shops that are doing things the right way losing money, though as a consumer I am glad there is protection. Hopefully you guys are able to write off these things or something to compensate for legit losses. I assume you are from Canucktibles. I'll add you to my reputable only toy shop bookmarks. I am finding out that to get certain items from older releases you really have to shop around to find those missing pieces.

[Fermix]

Do not listen to anything that the owner tells you about Credit Card disputes. He emailed me several times telling me that I was abusing the system and that he was totally in the right. After each emailed I called my credit card company (because it was my first dispute ever and I was concerned) and they always reassured me what Hoffman already said, that I need to either have my money or have the product.

I dont know if it's the same across companies, but once you close a dispute you cannot open it again. I am convinced that Austin knows this and tries to get them shut down so that buyers cannot reopen them again when he inevitably continues his shitty behaviour.

Your credit card company will take care of you, and don't take any suggestions or facts from Austin.

[toyguy99]

Good advice and I just got to let it go and let the credit card company do their job. My first dispute ever too and I've had credit cards longer than I haven't. Got the end date circled on my calendar for the has to end by date time limit and hope to have my permanent credit then. Since the money was already spent on toys and credit card paid, I really hope that it is returned so I can purchase some toys that I will actually receive.

It is crazy to me about how many issues you find with this place once you start looking.

[Hoffman]

I should say, product fulfillment from suppliers and distributors has been atrocious the last couple of years, but that's not an excuse for bad policies and behaviors.

I can more than understand the product not arriving in stock, but I don't understand the point in fighting customers on it. Many are willing to wait through delays, but it's totally understandable when somebody wants a refund so they can secure a product elsewhere.

[Fermix]

I also think MOST customers are also sympathetic to the struggles that all businesses are facing right now (I'm sure there are some bad apples, of course). But when it takes weeks or even months of emailing to maaaybe get an update on an order of in-stock items, that's just sheer incompetence.

[NMCTOYS]

It's incredible the conspiracy theories people come up with. I am more than happy to share every single email that was sent between yourself and this store with anyone who would like to read them. Let me know your order number and I will post screenshots gladly.

People are entitled to treat retailers however they see fit. Unfortunately, the chargeback system as Hoffman stated, is incredibly easy to abuse.

Originally Posted by Fermix

Do not listen to anything that the owner tells you about Credit Card disputes. He emailed me several times telling me that I was abusing the system and that he was totally in the right. After each emailed I called my credit card company (because it was my first dispute ever and I was concerned) and they always reassured me what Hoffman already said, that I need to either have my money or have the product.

Everything I have ever told anyone about chargebacks is fact. As per the cardholder agreement (and the message that plays while you wait on hold with most card companies, I know it does for RBC for sure) you are supposed to first attempt to cancel the order with the retailer prior to filing the chargeback. The retailer then has 15 days to process the request. You are not supposed to be able to file a chargeback without first having attempted to cancel the order with the retailer. Unfortunately, most chargeback "specialists" don't do their jobs or due diligence (and many are trained to do just that because of the huge fees card companies collect when they're filed).

Once a dispute is filed there is no refunding. The transaction is put on hold and no refunds can be issued from the retailers end. From what I have gathered based on your messages it seems you are one of those people who filed a chargeback without ever requesting cancellation.

There was an individual that had requested shipment of in-stock products who's emails got missed, it's unfortunate, but it does happen, and instead of requesting cancellation of the items they turned around and filed a chargeback.

As a retailer the first thing the payment process will tell you is once a chargeback is filed DO NOT ship ANYTHING. As Hoffman has already stated it is essentially impossible to win a chargeback even with proof of delivery and signature.

I've had people who's card companies file a chargeback on their behalf without them actually initiating it (they were just calling for info/suggestions) and then outright tell the card company to close the dispute, sent me proof they did so, and still the chargeback was decided in their favor.

Originally Posted by Fermix

I dont know if it's the same across companies, but once you close a dispute you cannot open it again. I am convinced that knows this and tries to get them shut down so that buyers cannot reopen them again when he inevitably continues his shitty behaviour.

Most disputes cannot be reopened once closed. That does not have any impact though on receiving a refund from this store whether you convince yourself otherwise or not. If I refused to refund customers I wouldn't list a cancellation policy on the website. I'd simple say "final sale, no cancellations". I process cancellations for people every single day.

As for my "shitty behaviour" if what you were saying was true this store wouldn't still be in operation for over 6 years and have shipped out over 1700 parcels in the last 3 months alone let alone taken over 12,000 orders since the new site went live.

Listen, this store isn't perfect, especially not nowadays being as understaffed as it is. There is no getting around that. Emails get missed. There was recently a huge issue with microsoft emails getting blocked by google and not received. None of the last 2 years has been ideal.

But when you file a chargeback against a store you basically force their hand. The second you filed that chargeback my hands were tied. I could no longer refund you directly as they put a hold on the transaction and I could not ship you the items because there was no way even with proof of delivery I could guarantee I wouldn't be out both the items and the funds. You say your card company informed you of x,y, and z? Well my card processor specifically suggests that once a chargeback is filed no refunds are issued via alternative means and no items are shipped and I'm sure Hoffman can confirm my interpretation of this is in fact correct.

As for your claim about having to accept the BS re-stocking fee I've got good news for you. People aren't charged a restocking fee on cancellations of pre-order items. The re-stocking fee is rightfully so only charged on cancellations of in-stock products. What is charged on the cancellation of pre-order items is a cancellation fee to cover the payment processing costs associated with the transaction. If you do not agree with this policy I would advise not placing an order for pre-order products.

[NMCTOYS]

Originally Posted by Hoffman

I should say, product fulfillment from suppliers and distributors has been atrocious the last couple of years, but that's not an excuse for bad policies and behaviors.

I can more than understand the product not arriving in stock, but I don't understand the point in fighting customers on it. Many are willing to wait through delays, but it's totally understandable when somebody wants a refund so they can secure a product elsewhere.

Hey Hoffman, I've always had respectful conversations with you in person at the Missisauga shows so it's a bit surprising to me how quickly you are to assume what these people are saying is truth.

As per my website's policies I offer cancellations without issue. The only time a cancellation or refund may encounter a problem is if the payment processor has put a block on the transaction preventing it from being refunded due to the age of the transaction. This is something I'm sure you can confirm on your end as being a roadblock, or if it's not something you experience I'd love to know who you use to process payments because it's become a real pain in my butt.

Unfortunately, when people use the chargeback system to request a reversal of the charge prior to contacting me to refund the order there is very little to be done. Once the dispute has been filed the funds are removed from my account and the transaction locked. I can at that point no longer refund the transaction. This is I'm sure something you can confirm about how the chargeback process works.

Another thing you can confirm is that every payment processor out there that I've used has expressly stated that once a chargeback is filed to NOT under any circumstances ship out product. As you stated yourself, you've lost chargebacks when you've even had proof of delivery, so there is just flat out no way I'm shipping someone product AFTER they've filed the chargeback.

There is no fighting customers on it. I will however message a customer after a chargeback has been filed to explain to them the ramifications of filing a chargeback and that they are supposed to be used as a last resort.

Some people truly do not understand how chargebacks work or realize there are repercussions for filing them. I make sure to let them know of this to avoid any potential repeats of this occurring in the future in the hopes that the next time they have an issue they'll contact the retailer to request cancellation and give them a chance to process the request first. They are apologetic but that being said once filed there's not really anything to be done about it. Even if they're willing to reverse it, it can take up to 90 days to have the funds returned.

Then you have some people who well I'm sure you've dealt with the types yourself.

As you yourself stated the last 2 years have been an utter disaster. This hasn't been helped by these seemingly endless lockdown restrictions, labor shortages, shipping issues, and supply issues. This store like most business out there remains understaffed. That's going to mean emails get missed. It's not ideal by any means but thankfully 99+% of the people out there are understanding and a joy to deal with.

One thing I will never do though is nod and smile my way through someone harassing and abusing this store or the individual I have handling customer support. The way some people think it appropriate to speak to support/service personnel is abhorrent. Should I just nod and smile my way through those interactions to save me the hassle of having to deal with people being so zealously against this store? Probably. That's what a lot of businesses out there do. But I'm sorry this is something I will always stand against and I do not think anyone has the right to belittle, insult, or harass a retailer.

If anyone in this thread is waiting for refunds or an email hasn't been answered just politely follow up with sales. I've had multiple people however claim not being answered in reviews and yet when I follow up with them and ask for an order number so I can look into the issue they never provide it.

For anyone reading this post your order number here (there is nothing identifiable in an order number) and I'll be more than happy to look for any associated emails. Please do keep in mind cancellation requests are supposed to go directly to SALES and NOT support as support is dealing with a very high volume of emails right now but that's not to say that emailing sales will result in an instant response.

The good news is that at this point so far things seem to be getting a lot more consistent. Unfortunately/fortunately, a borderline insurmountable amount of inventory is also arriving in-stock which is not helping the backlog situation at all but we're working through it to the best we can and again thankfully 99+% of people out there are an utter joy to interact with. I'm just happy more product seems to be getting released nowadays. It'd be nice if they spread it out more but I'm just happy this stuff is finally showing up.