The Clone Wars: Season 2: Episode 9 Discussion Thread

[SPLIT LIP]

The creators said they didn't want to just kill him because they liked him too much. To them: stop getting so attached to these people, they all end up worm food in Episode three anyway. Let Grievous knock off some Jedi, please!

Finally we see some standard-colour 212th troops under Cody's command. We've seen Waxer and Boil, as well as many other plain white or Geonosis-gear troopers, but never the distinct yellow-orange striped ones. I dunno, it just struck me as a pro for this ep.

Grievous had some mad fighting moves, too. And I do mean mad. I loved the little touches, like how in his fight with Obi-wan as he got more enclosed and frustrated he was hitting walls and slicing consoles. Even when he was running he did that freaky-awesome spider-run thing I love so much.

I'm still kinda miff'd about the whole "Anakin and Grievous never met until ROTS" but that's bullcrap. I wanna see them throw down. They never fought in ROTS, so we have these two great characters, (who are substancial improvements over their prequel movie counterparts, I might add) who can never directly interact because of some worthless throwaway line. Ugh, just bugs me.

[StarwarsTF]

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script.

[lars573]

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Finally we see some standard-colour 212th troops under Cody's command. We've seen Waxer and Boil, as well as many other plain white or Geonosis-gear troopers, but never the distinct yellow-orange striped ones. I dunno, it just struck me as a pro for this ep.

I also noted Rex had some plain blue striped 501st troopers with him too.

And then there was Koth's slime splat with a worm in it troopers.

[SPLIT LIP]

Originally Posted by StarwarsTF

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script.

Actually, I like it. The only problem is, it makes Episode three look bad by giving these two charatcers an interesting relationship, and in Episode three it's like "meh, whatev, we fight now." I know it most likely won't, but I'd love to see this show cover, even if only in a summary, the events of Episode three. It'd be a lot more interesting with this Anakin and not that emo dork from the movies.

Originally Posted by lars573

I also noted Rex had some plain blue striped 501st troopers with him too.

And then there was Koth's slime splat with a worm in it troopers.

I didn't notice the 501st guys. And yeah, Koth's troops were awesome.

[Prowl_2009]

Originally Posted by StarwarsTF

This double episode was fantastic though lose the dialogue between Kenobi and Grevious now!!! It's starting to sound just like the Episode 3 script.

Really? I seriously love the Kenobi / Grievous banter during combat!

[Robimus]

I'm still not high on how they are using Grievous in the series. Like Split Lip mentions, its kinda making the Ep 3 confrontation less meaningful between him and Kenobi.

On top of that so many Jedi he attacks completely own him. Now we've seen Kit Fisto and Eeth Koth both belittle him, which is very much a new take on his character who in the prior EU was presented as a nearly unbeatable Jedi killer.

Grievous in the past has been a bigger threat than Ventress, now I think the show has made it clear that Ventress is a bigger threat just because of how she has dueled Luminara.

Descriptions for the Mandalorian Episodes are starting to pop up as well. They appear to be even a bigger nightmare for EU continuity than first imagined, but I still can't wait.

[SPLIT LIP]

Originally Posted by Robimus

I'm still not high on how they are using Grievous in the series. Like Split Lip mentions, its kinda making the Ep 3 confrontation less meaningful between him and Kenobi.

I don't care about Episode three anymore. Clone Wars as a series has served the preguel movies in every way.

Now we've seen Kit Fisto and Eeth Koth both belittle him, which is very much a new take on his character who in the prior EU was presented as a nearly unbeatable Jedi killer.

They didn't belittle him. I don't know if you watched the episode, but Eeth Koth lost, and was tortured and shackled by Grievous. And the whole time they did fight he was basically toying with him. And again, Kit Fisto never belittled him. he barely escaped Grievous, and still lost his former Padawan and clone squad.

And even though he has lost in the end, the show's still portrayed him as more than a threat. the only times he's lost are when his opponents vastly outnumber him or they merely escape from him.

I never liked the EU Grievous. He was too... fanfic-y. Like someone wrote "this guy is super-cool and doesn't lose and kills all the good guys the end". I remember in the first Clone Wars cartoon when he took on all those Jedi in his first appearence. They fought like whimps all to make Grievous look good. I like a competant Grievous, but also a realistic Grievous. Yeah he's tough, but he's not God-like. Sure he's cunning, but he also runs if he knows he won't win. Sure he can take a lot, but he can still be injured and die. It makes him a stronger charatcer as an antagonist to make him formidible, but credible. As long as he's not as, dare I say bumbling as he is in Episode three.

Descriptions for the Mandalorian Episodes are starting to pop up as well. They appear to be even a bigger nightmare for EU continuity than first imagined, but I still can't wait.

I've never cared for the EU before the first Clone Wars cartoon, so I don't care if they rewrite anything with this one. I just want may favourite TV show on air to stay good.


Also, has anyone noticed how the animation has improved? Every moment Grievous was on screen he looked fantastic compared to how he moved in Season 1. Like that shot when Grievous is running through the ship talking on the comm, and it's a close-up on his face and it's much more dramatic than just the standard angles from season one. Both eps are full of these. The scenes were more artistically set up, like the fight in the damaged airlock, and while not this ep, in the next when rex is in Cut's house while tehy have dinner.

[Robimus]

Did you not see my comments, of course I watched it

Grievous only beat Koth because of his Magna Droids making the fight uneven. Everytime Eeth got an advantage the Magna Guards hit Koth.

Fisto handled Grievous fairly easily in Lair, he took one of his sabers and forced Grievous to retreat.

Only the appearance of the Magna Guards forced Kit to retreat, so he could avoid the same fate as Eeth.

Killing clones and one Jedi just don't make Grievous the threat he needs to be. Right now he's playing the typical cowardly villian, always being thrwarted, always fleeing. We hear about his military victories but never really see one.

See, the Films and the EU exist and create expectations for many fans, not everyone has to like them but they are still there..

This series in and of itself is proving very disrespectful of the EU, to the point where I view it as pretty much a seperate continuity anyway.

By disrespectful I don't mean that its ignoring the EU, that would actually be better. Instead its strip mining the EU taking aspects like Ventress the Mandalorians and more, simply using them to tell only their story with no regard for the character origins.

George Lucas approves of this and I'm actually fine with that, because as stated I do seperate the continuities into personal canon.

As someone who thinks Episode 3 is the best Star Wars film thats been made I do find Split Lip's opinion disturbing (ala Vader).

But I've found that this series has created a lot of new fans, like Split Lip, and that is a good thing. There is no way around that. The more Star Wars fans there are, the better the franchise will be.

I get that the newer fans don't care if the older stories get overwritten, but just ask yourself how you would feel if a year or two from now The Clone Wars series was completely overwritten by a new live action version, all the while LFL's official policy was that "There is only one continuity".

That means things you liked about the current series would be gone, erased, officially no longer counting from LFL's perspective. Of course they still exist, they just don't count officially.

And it might not matter to you either, but I'm just trying to give you an idea about where I'm coming from.

In 1994 Lucas told us through the forward of Splinter of the Minds Eye that the EU was a direct continuation of his story, then the prequels came out and he cherry picked(at least we still got Coruscant ), disregarding virtually everything else.

Then he decided that the EU wasn't his story but still forced LFL to have "one contiuity" in the same breath. Which actually worked out not too badly until recent years when he decided to get out the EU eraser and started cherry picking again.

As you can probably tell from this rant I have a high regard for the authors wo have written and maintained the EU for the past 16 years.

I even had a high regard for Dave Filoni, as it was apparent from early on that he was trying to not steam roll the existing EU with the series. He can still restore my faith too, there is time

By all means use Quinlan Vos, just don't erase everything about his history but his dreadlocks. If thats the intention then they shouldn't use him at all. Use some other original Jedi, one that hasn't had 50 comics and a complete history written about him.

It's George Lucas that I've lost some respect for. He'll always be god in the Star Wars Universe and I'll always love his creation. I just don't think he respects us back in some ways.

Anyway I'm concerned that you(Split Lip) view my comments as bashing the show, which I'm in no way trying to do.

I enjoy the show, I like what its adding to the Star Wars Universe. It's just tough to divorce one's self from from an emotional investment in a lifetime of EU story telling just because I'm being told that the shiny new TV series is now the official story.

This official story keeps getting changed and there is some frustration in that. I admit I'd be much more frustrated if the post ROTJ EU got mucked around with though, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't.

[Prowl_2009]

Originally Posted by SPLIT LIP

Also, has anyone noticed how the animation has improved? Every moment Grievous was on screen he looked fantastic compared to how he moved in Season 1. Like that shot when Grievous is running through the ship talking on the comm, and it's a close-up on his face and it's much more dramatic than just the standard angles from season one. Both eps are full of these. The scenes were more artistically set up, like the fight in the damaged airlock, and while not this ep, in the next when rex is in Cut's house while tehy have dinner.

The animation has certainly improved over both the film and first season! The characters look fantastic and yes, the shots have changed to show off how beautifully the characters have now been animated. Grievous was the one character who really stood out in my mind from these episodes as having been improved upon and a close examination of his appearance in episodes like Lair of Greivous from Season 1 will quickly show the viewer just how much the animation and overall character movement have improved since the shows early beginnings!

[lars573]

Originally Posted by Robimus

Did you not see my comments, of course I watched it

Grievous only beat Koth because of his Magna Droids making the fight uneven. Everytime Eeth got an advantage the Magna Guards hit Koth.

Fisto handled Grievous fairly easily in Lair, he took one of his sabers and forced Grievous to retreat.

Only the appearance of the Magna Guards forced Kit to retreat, so he could avoid the same fate as Eeth.

Killing clones and one Jedi just don't make Grievous the threat he needs to be. Right now he's playing the typical cowardly villian, always being thrwarted, always fleeing. We hear about his military victories but never really see one.

See, the Films and the EU exist and create expectations for many fans, not everyone has to like them but they are still there..

This series in and of itself is proving very disrespectful of the EU, to the point where I view it as pretty much a seperate continuity anyway.

By disrespectful I don't mean that its ignoring the EU, that would actually be better. Instead its strip mining the EU taking aspects like Ventress the Mandalorians and more, simply using them to tell only their story with no regard for the character origins.

George Lucas approves of this and I'm actually fine with that, because as stated I do seperate the continuities into personal canon.

As someone who thinks Episode 3 is the best Star Wars film thats been made I do find Split Lip's opinion disturbing (ala Vader).

But I've found that this series has created a lot of new fans, like Split Lip, and that is a good thing. There is no way around that. The more Star Wars fans there are, the better the franchise will be.

I get that the newer fans don't care if the older stories get overwritten, but just ask yourself how you would feel if a year or two from now The Clone Wars series was completely overwritten by a new live action version, all the while LFL's official policy was that "There is only one continuity".

That means things you liked about the current series would be gone, erased, officially no longer counting from LFL's perspective. Of course they still exist, they just don't count officially.

And it might not matter to you either, but I'm just trying to give you an idea about where I'm coming from.

In 1994 Lucas told us through the forward of Splinter of the Minds Eye that the EU was a direct continuation of his story, then the prequels came out and he cherry picked(at least we still got Coruscant ), disregarding virtually everything else.

Then he decided that the EU wasn't his story but still forced LFL to have "one contiuity" in the same breath. Which actually worked out not too badly until recent years when he decided to get out the EU eraser and started cherry picking again.

As you can probably tell from this rant I have a high regard for the authors wo have written and maintained the EU for the past 16 years.

I even had a high regard for Dave Filoni, as it was apparent from early on that he was trying to not steam roll the existing EU with the series. He can still restore my faith too, there is time

By all means use Quinlan Vos, just don't erase everything about his history but his dreadlocks. If thats the intention then they shouldn't use him at all. Use some other original Jedi, one that hasn't had 50 comics and a complete history written about him.

It's George Lucas that I've lost some respect for. He'll always be god in the Star Wars Universe and I'll always love his creation. I just don't think he respects us back in some ways.

Anyway I'm concerned that you(Split Lip) view my comments as bashing the show, which I'm in no way trying to do.

I enjoy the show, I like what its adding to the Star Wars Universe. It's just tough to divorce one's self from from an emotional investment in a lifetime of EU story telling just because I'm being told that the shiny new TV series is now the official story.

This official story keeps getting changed and there is some frustration in that. I admit I'd be much more frustrated if the post ROTJ EU got mucked around with though, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed that it won't.

And this is why Roddenberry had the brains to make a certain declartion about his star-themed creation. "If it's not on the screen, it isn't cannon." And Lucas now seems to be following that rule.